[DMCForum] Re: the EV1... vs Diesel
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[DMCForum] Re: the EV1... vs Diesel

--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "timnagin" <timnagin@...> wrote:
> Even if the numbers were extremely low, wouldn't that at least
reduce our
> dependence on some foreign oil sources?  Even if it is only 5%, but I am
> sure it would be much higher than that, we will be reducing our
reliance by
> that amount.  That also means more jobs within the US and less
> right?

At what cost?  Seems to me that the benefits aren't all that great. 
What goal are we trying to accomplish by reducing dependency on
foreign oil?

I never meant to imply that we couldn't be independent of foreign oil.
 I just don't think domestic drilling is the "answer".  It's a
pathetic band-aid.  Yeah, okay, it has its upsides, but it's more like
a back pocket idea.  We should be focusing on alternate energy
sources, not just where we're going to get our next petroleum fix.

I want to solve the energy problem, not just make gas cheaper.

> >Those are vehicles that run on both regular unleaded AND E85. I think
> >Bob was talking about E85-only engines. Obviously, the compression
> >ratio of a FF engine is the same as an ordinary gasoline engine.
> That would be a FFV, or Flexible Fuel Vehicle, like my old 1999
Ranger.  E85
> is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline so my understanding is any E85 capable
> vehicle can run on just gasoline.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
> Here is a short list of current E85 vehicles.
> htm

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.  Flex-fuel vehicles (like my
old Taurus and my new Tahoe) are dual-fuel vehicles.  Engineers don't
sit down at a clean drawing board when they design those engines,
because at the end of the day, they still have to run on regular old
gasoline.  They take an existing engine, give it a computer smart
enough to "taste" the difference between the two fuels (and any
continuously variable mixture of the two) and fuel components hardy
enough to take the rigors of E85.  It's a compromise, it's not optimal
for E85-efficiency.

It was my understanding that Bob was referring to engines that could
be physically designed from scratch to be optimized to running E85
ONLY.  I don't doubt that these kinds of engines could be more
efficient that regular gas engines (but I don't actually know, just
trying to clarify what I thought Bob was saying).

> >>> Electric vehicles with solar, wind, PV or nuclear generation have
> >>> an almost carbon neutral balance. Both of these technologies need
> >>> to be pursued-quickly.
> >>
> >> Only if you completely ignore the manufacturing, shipping,
> >> advertising, maintenance and everything else associated with it.
> >
> >What do you mean? These facets only contribute to carbon sinks if the
> >technology used by them do. I think Bob is talking about a paradigm
> >shift to new technology. That is, manufacturing, shipping,
> >advertising and maintenance would use the newer, cleaner,
> >carbon-neutral energy as well.
> Sure, but right now most used to make and transport E85 is the old way.
> Right?

Huh?  Are we maybe talking about two different things here?  I heard
electric vehicles, solar, wind, photovoltaics and nuclear.  Where did
E85 come in?

But in answer to your question, yes, E85 (and energy storage for the
other technologies I was talking about) is currently transported the
same old way, which contributes to atmospheric carbon and fossil fuel
dependency.  But surely that doesn't lessen the value or necessity of
the concepts themselves.  In my mind, it raises it.  A paradigm shift
to clean(er) energy sources will take care of its own manufacturing,
shipping, etc. dirtiness.

Jon Heese

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