[DMCForum] Re: the EV1...

["jonheese" <dmcforum@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Here's a reply from another list, with sources:

"The original article is an opinion piece for a small college
newspaper.  The whole article is garbage.

1. Take the "spitting distance" mileage, for example. The new EPA
combined mileage put the Chevy Aveo at 26 mpg, the Toyota Prius at 46
mpg. So I guess 20 miles more per gallon is "spitting distance."

2. The "Dust-to-dust" study is from a marketing firm, not a science
journal. It arrives at an artificially high cost for the Prius by
assigning it an arbitrary lifespan of 100k miles, and a Hummer 300k
miles. There's Prius being used as cabs that have 200k on them now:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8839690/

And, insofar as a car lasting, what car do you expect to repair less?
A Toyota Prius or a GM Hummer? You can check Consumer Reports for the
answer to that one. A good analysis of the flaws in dust-to-dust is
available at:
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48

3. The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon
buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies ? early 1970's) ought
to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of
mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury's nickel went into making
the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not
Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota
buys 1% (1000 tons). Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make
stainless steel. The Mail on Sunday newspaper, which ran the story the
college article is a thin re-write of (visible here
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770),
used a stock photo from 1994 to illustrate the pollution (visible here
http://www.photoboy.com/bin/Cklb?vmo=1173985067754). There were, of
course, no Priuses in existence or being manufactured in 1994.

Sudbury is no longer as polluted, as INCO and the city have planted
over 8 million trees there since 1979. The best history online of the
Sudbury devastation/reforestation comes from GM Canada (the trees were
all cut down in 1871 to help rebuild Chicago after the fire), and it
provides telling photos of some of the reclamation from 1979 to present.
http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada/english/about/MissionGreen";

Regards,
Jon Heese 

--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "timnagin" <timnagin@...> wrote:
>
> I never claimed the article was without fault.  I know nickel is used in
> more things besides hybrid batteries.  Still, the area where the
nickel mine
> is was supposedly damaged due to the mining.  No, I haven't been
there and
> haven't seen the mine personally so I can not attest to that.  The
one thing
> this writer states, that you have yet to provide, is specific facts
that can
> be verified.
> 
>  
> 
> This is pushing the limit of getting into politics, of which we have all
> agreed not to do, but we have enough oil here in the US to get off
foreign
> dependency.  Gee, if we were only allowed to drill our own oil here,
in the
> gulf, and in ANWR.  Wow, a very fast and easy way to get off foreign oil
> that could happen sooner than waiting for efficient hybrids!
> 
>  
> 
> I have no desire to spend $10k on top of the price of my truck to
double the
> gas mileage.  If I wanted a better mileage vehicle, and it suited my
needs,
> I would just go get one that already exists without the mark up.  Then
> again, I earned the money I spend on my truck and my gasoline so if
I want
> to dump raw fuel out of the exhaust pipe I can.  Hang on while I remote
> start my truck and let it idle for a bit.  :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Greg
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of Bob Brandys
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:47 PM
> To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [DMCForum] the EV1...
> 
>  
> 
> Sort sighed article, myoptic in its analysis. Misleading it is 
> implications.
> 
> Where are the cost savings associated with reduced CO2 emissions?
> Oh, those are "Externalities" (in economic terms) so they are not 
> quantified. BS
> 
> Where are the environmental costs of oil drilling and supply?. How 
> about the cost savings of not
> having a mideast war over oil of the future that will cost many 
> trillions of dollars?
> 
> The cost of this stupid Iraq war is now almost $1 trillion dollars. 
> That is about $10,000 per car in the US.
> Spending $10,000 more on a car to double its mileage would eliminate 
> the need for mid east oil.
> 
> Gee, wouldn't that be a good idea? Of course, at that point, there 
> would be an over supply of
> oil and the price would drop to below $1 per gallon. BUT WE WOULD BE 
> FREE FROM THEIR OIL!
> 
> The comments on nickel refining ASSUME that all the nickel is used in 
> hybrid cars.
> Get real. Most nickel is used in Stainless steel. This is just 
> misleading and inaccurate perspective.
> The amount of nickel used in NiMH batteries (which are recycled because 
> of their very high value) is insignificant compared to SS.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




 
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