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Re: [DMCForum] Mistletoe belt buckles, naked chicks and hummers...

Ryan Wright wrote:
>>Claiming that Christmas is a
>>national holiday, and therefore universal to Americans is demonstrably
>>and woefully wrong.
> The hell it's wrong. Christmas is a national holiday in the United States.
> "national holiday - authorized by law and limiting work or official business"

Well, I'll be honest with you: that is news to me.  I'm disgusted that
the government recognizes Christmas as a "holy day".  Sounds like "law
concerning religion" to me...

> I didn't say Christmas was universal to Americans. I said it was a
> national holiday. You, and several others, have made the leap that
> "national holiday" = "everyone celebrates it". I never said that.
> Plenty of people don't celebrate Thanksgiving but that doesn't make it
> any less than a national holiday.

No, actually I didn't mean to sound as if I thought you were saying
that.  I was arguing only that there was nothing in the law books that
said anything about Christmas.  I never actually researched that fact
because I thought it was a no-brainer.  I was wrong on that one.

> Our government recognizes Christmas Day as a national holiday,
> universally and legally accepted as a holiday. Whether you choose to
> celebrate the birth of Christ on Christmas day doesn't matter. That is
> a completely personal preference and has nothing to do with it's
> status as a holiday.

Well, considering as how I disagree strongly with the fact that
government has *anything* to say about Christmas, this is a moot point
for me.  I contend that the government has no place telling us what is
and what isn't a religion-based holiday.  Of course I defend everyone's
right to celebrate what ever they want whenever they want; but
government "observance" goes far beyond prudence, IMHO.  In theory, I
don't see how we could include Christmas in the national holidays
without making sure that all of the other holidays are recognized as
well.  Of course, in practice, that trivializes the whole thing since
I'm sure there are enough religions with their holidays to fill most of
the calendar.  How would you limit what religions/holidays make it in
and which don't?  In the end, I see the whole thing as ridiculous and

> As for "Merry Christmas" being exclusive and off-putting, I think
> people should get a grip. It's like arguing over "he/she". Proper
> English when referring to a person of unknown gender dictates the use
> of the masculine pronoun, yet people get upset because "you're
> excluding women!"

Really, for me, it's just a matter of principle.  When talking about
hypothetical first amendment issues, there's a difference in saying that
you believe something is right or wrong and not having a grip.  I assure
you that I am an entirely ordinary, sane person.  But hey, if we're
going to talk theoretical, let's be serious.

Wishing somebody a Merry Christmas is not excluding
> anybody. The fact that I fail to mention every specific holiday
> doesn't mean I'm excluding those groups, it just means I didn't
> mention them. And you can have a Merry Christmas without celebrating
> the birth of Christ. Just enjoy your day off work December 25th and
> have some good times. I don't care whether you worship or not, I'm
> just saying, "Enjoy your holiday! Eat, drink and be merry!" I don't
> see how anybody could have a problem with that, unless they have a
> problem with being merry (happy).

Again, I want to make this clear: I have no problem with people telling
others to have a Merry Christmas.  It's silly and entirely baseless to
argue that a person's vocal _expression_ of their religion (or whatever)
is somehow unconstitutional just because someone may or may not
recognize the sentiment involved.

My point had only to do with government policy regarding religious
holidays, Christmas specifically.  I honestly thought that you were
trying to say that you believed that everyone loves Christmas and the
main intention of my original post was to make sure that I misunderstood
you. =)

> If you feel the need to be all inclusive and recognize every holiday
> with "Happy Holidays", more power to you. I choose not to, and if
> someone is offended because of that, then that's a problem they need
> to deal with.

I agree with you 100% on that.  I hope I didn't come off otherwise.

Jon Heese

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