RE: [DMCForum] Re: All people of faith are dumb, and so am I apparently.
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RE: [DMCForum] Re: All people of faith are dumb, and so am I apparently.

Yes, but where is the proof?  What is the great one waiting for?  It has
been 2000 years since his son graced us with his presence, and now all we
get are the Virgin Mary in grilled cheese and John Edwards telling us
everything will be alright (ok he is not a real religion)?  Heck even Bobby
Hill can turn water into wine...

The problem is, we spent centuries believing the Bible as factual, and
worshiping a god in the heavens, taking the scripture as the Word.  Then we
went to the heavens and oops there was no big guy sitting in a cloud
welcoming us. 

Religion IMHO is a belief system regarding right and wrong, not worshiping
one person, but a way of life.  Be it Buddhist, Catholic, Methodist, Church
of Universal Life, Baptist, etc.  They all strive for the same end result --
making us better people.  To that end I believe they succeed.  But the ones
who take the bible at fact and reject the notion that that big book is as
factual as the Grimm Fairy Tales makes me wonder about them.

Jack Stiefel - Tampa, Fl
DMC Vin 03461
Listen to the best music of all time at

-----Original Message-----
From: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ryan Wright
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 7:54 PM
To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [DMCForum] Re: All people of faith are dumb, and so am I

> agnostic is not someone who will likely be convinced with so
called > "scientific" proof...they are someone who thinks it's impossible to
know. (can't
> be proven one way or another)

We're on the same page, Josh, you just don't know it yet. ;-)

You're right, an agnostic would not be convinced with "so called"
proof. He would, however, be convinced with real proof. True, the
agnostic believes that proof will never come ("it's impossible to
know"). And he will be incredibly strict about judging any "proof"
that does come along.

However, if there was solid, irrefutable proof, the agnostic would
believe. Why? The entire definition of agnostic is someone who is on
the fence, hasn't made a decision either way because he doesn't have
the necessary proof to do so. The agnostics I know have highly
scientific minds and are logical, intelligent people. If someone put
the proof of God in their laps, they would have no choice but to
believe based on their own logic. That is why I said he would believe
"if someone could show him proof worthy of passing intensive
scientific peer review." In other words, irrefutable proof.

If you're not convinced yet, I'll keep going:

Let's say - bear with me here - that the rapture happened right now as
foretold in the book of Revelation. Every Christian in the world just
flat out disappeared. Billions of people missing without a trace. That
would be irrefutable proof the Bible is the truth, unless you're into
wild conspiracy theories (I don't know any agnostics who are). If this
happened in your lifetime, could you go on being agnostic, honestly
claiming you can't make a choice because no proof exists?

What if God himself came down from heaven and had a nice long chat
with you. Turned some water into wine, some stone into bread, told you
what a bad boy you are and then headed up into the clouds on the wings
of an angel. Several of your family members and a dozen onlookers all
witnessed it, so there is no chance you were hallucinating. Would you
go on being agnostic, claiming no proof exists?

I think you would turn into a believer, as I think most agnostics would.

Just trying to make the point that agnostics would believe if they had
irrefutable proof.


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