RE: [DMCForum] PRV Performance

["Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller@xxxxxxxxx>]

I love this quote from the end of Fred Langes comments.
 
"One must not just bolt in a stoopid fast engine and expect to
not have to attend to stopping or turning at high speeds."
 
Scott Mueller 002981

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Stragand [mailto:dave.stragand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:39 AM
To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [DMCForum] PRV Performance


It's Fred Lang's recipe, but I want to use Renault 25 heads, if Martin can
find me a set.

Subj:    Re: PRV 500 HPs?????
Date:   04/09/2003 8:41:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:   jlane@(John Lane)

Hello to all who are interested in making their PRV break drivetrain parts.
I have been hugely successful in doing just that.

I have had a number of queries as to how I have made my toy just sooo darned
silly fast.   Here goes.....

I am using the engine block with the cross-bolted main bearings and oil to
water oil cooler  as used in the Volvo B-280. 


I am using the cylinder heads of an Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco, as the
intake ports of the Premier are MUCH better then Volvo used.   Set them side
by side to see how Volvo managed to choke the V-6 back to making less power
then the turbo-4. 


The heads got ported on the intake side to tidy up a bit, and a LOT in the
exhaust to help that ugly mess. 


The camshafts of the Volvo flavor will give better top end power, and alloy
rocker arms are readily available from Volvo.  The Volvo cams are of the
mechanical variety, so you will get to adjust valves.   I have not tried the
Premier cams with their hydraulic valve lash adjusters for anything but a
street engine,  but in that form it ran just fine naturally aspirated.  The
Premier cams are certainly of the flavor which will make for more low end
power. 


I use the throttle body as used in the Volvo engine as it is of larger
diameter, and it is aimed better for the turbo. 


For pistons I am using J&E forged slugs with a dish in them to drop
compression to 8 to 1. 


I am using the liners from the Premier for three liters of displacement.
More cubes is more fun all else being equal. 


I have learned the hard way that the standard connecting rods are not up to
the task.   When it blew up,  all the rods except for the one that made
shrapnel were shorter by one to two mm.  Too many parts were missing from
the broken rod to guess how much shorter it was before it expired.   Yikes!!
Forced induction will push a LOT harder on everything. 


My answer for that was to pick out an Eagle Racing connecting rod (think
Merikanski V-8 stuff which is made by the bajillion and therefore relatively
affordable) which is close dimensionally to what we need and have the
machinist go wild to make 'em work.   Lots of effort for rods which have
not had to be babysat since.  Just the way I like 'em. 


The whole rotating mess got balanced with the flywheel and the clutch.
The turbo is a nice big T-04 that I had made up for me based on my
requirements. 


The turbo manifold was made up special to get from the exhaust manifolds to
the turbo. 


I use an HKS external wastegate, and am as tickled as can be with how it
works.  I am not fond of internal wastegates.   Boost creep and other
naughtiness.... 


Oil gets to the turbo via a metal braided hose which is tapped into the big
plug next to the oil filter.  I have never checked my oil pressure, but have
had zero oiling issues.  If it don't sieze, it has to be all good right? I
use Mobil One synthetic oil. 


Oil from the turbo drain gets back to the pan via the hole in the upper pan
(as used in Volvo) next to the hole used for the dipstick.   Volvo used this
hole in the 760 for an oil level sensor.  We don't need it.   We service and
pay attention to our engines right? 


The turbo feeds it's warm compressed air to a Ford Powerstroke Diesel
intercooler fitted in front of the radiator.   Ignore what the naysayers
snivel about with having a huge intercooler.   It is the ONLY way to go
compared with a smaller less efficient unit. 


Fuel and ignition is handled with Electromotive  laptop programmable fuel
infection and ignition.  With this system, or a similar arrangement one can
have perfect drivability with legal emissions and monster power in boost.
Careful though.....One is only a couple of keystrokes away from blowing it
up should you get it wrong.  It is the incentive program.....Do Not get it
wrong. 


I had the nice folks at Electromotive supply me with the proper size
injectors along with a fuel pressure regulator and all the GM sensors I
needed to do this.   It uses a MAP sensor, so no air mass meter to fail, or
be in the way of free flowing air.     Now I have a MAP sensor to fail, but
have not experienced that yet. 


I am using the fuel pump arrangement as used in later model Mercedes V-8 and
V-12 cars.   This an arrangement that the wrecking yard will be happy to
sell you for around $150.00, and it will feed as much power as we are going
to make.  You will need larger fuel supply lines. 


I am using the exhaust manifolds of the Volvo as they clear my steering
linkage.   The manifolds in the Premier look better for flow,  but will not
fit in my car without a lot of work.   The Volvo manifolds do not seem to be
slowing me down. : ) 


My flywheel is the Volvo thing; lightened on the brakelathe, and then fitted
with a Quarter Master three disc clutch.  The  On-off switch which WILL
apply all that power. 


WARNING:   This combination has resulted in my breaking EVERY part in the
drivetrain downstream of the engine. 


It will make HUGE torque,  and everything must be up to the task,  or you
will have many expensive misadventures with breaking things in inconvenient
places.   All in good fun though. 


I have had a few folks ask how much dough it takes to do this.   The short
answer is a LOT.  I did my project slowly over time.......Electromotive got
done while it was naturally aspirated.   It made a noticeable improvement
over K-Jet. 


This is not a project for the weak of spirit or those of us who are wanting
a very straight forward swap.   It is a lot of work, and has made my
rallycar what I believe to be one of the most amusing to drive and watch
here in the states. 


I went out of my way to NOT keep track of how much dough I have in this
project......Remember......Complete drivetrain, suspension and brakes to go
with this.   One must not just bolt in a stoopid fast engine and expect to
not have to attend to stopping or turning at high speeds.   Forgive the
soapbox. 


Go git  'em guys and gals.
JohnLane. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Levy [mailto:malevy_nj@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:19 AM
To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [DMCForum] PRV Performance


Dave!  Please share....

I investigated a turbo PRV rebuild and found it to be
cost prohibitive even considering I already own the
turbos!

To rebuild the PRV with regular parts is an expensive
undertaking..  I did find someone willing to sell me a
used PRV-6 from a Venturi for under 10K (complete).

My thought was if I could get a used Turbo PRV engine
(From a Alpine 610 or GT maybe), then install the
Island turbo kit on it, I could increase the boost
quite a bit!  Again, the problem was finding a
reasonably priced used engine in this part of the
world.


--- Dave Stragand <dave.stragand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
<SNIP>
> on a Chrysler V6 swap, and I'm working on a
> parts-bin turbo PRV as well.
>  
> All are options, but none are easy.
>  
> -Dave


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
<http://mail.yahoo.com> http://mail.yahoo.com 


  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links


*      To visit your group on the web, go to:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/
  

*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
<mailto:DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Unsubscribe>
DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  

*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Yahoo! Terms of Service. 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links


*      To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/
  

*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Unsubscribe> 
  

*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.