[DMCForum] Re: the EV1... vs Diesel
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[DMCForum] Re: the EV1... vs Diesel

--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "timnagin" <timnagin@...> wrote:
>>If you can find a way for breathing, eating and moose farting with
>>decreased atmospheric carbon emissions, I'm all for it. 
> This is where you are kidding, right?  You want to alter nature?

Yes, it was a joke pointing out that you're claiming that 3 things we
have no control over are just as guilty contributors to greenhouse
gases as one thing we do have (some) control over.  It was supposed to
point out the ridiculousness of the comparison.

>>I'll say it again: For the term "renewable energy source" to be
>>applied to fossil fuels, they must be able to regenerate at the same
>>speed, or faster than we consume them. Just because fossil fuels are
>>being synthesized by the earth as we speak, doesn't make it renewable.
>>It depends more on the speed of renewal than just the sheer fact that
>>it is renewing. Think about it.
> Being able to regenerate at the same rate, or faster than, it is
> has nothing to do with being "renewable".
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/renewable
> 2. 
> capable of being renewed; replaceable; "renewable energy such as solar
> energy is theoretically inexhaustible" 

You defined the English word "renewable".  I'm talking about the
scientific concept of a "renewable energy source":


"* a source of energy that is not expected to deplete through constant
use or can be replaced or grown within a relatively short period of time.

* Renewable energy (sources) or RES capture their energy from existing
flows of energy, from on-going natural processes, such as sunshine,
wind, flowing water, biological processes, and geothermal heat flows.
Neither fossil fuels nor nuclear power are considered to be renewable." 

>>Its scarcity is the only thing guaranteed to ween us off it. It has
>>nothing to do with the reasons we aren't using other energy sources
>>more extensively. I don't understand this link at all.
> We already have the infrastructure in place to use oil.

It still sounds like you're turned around here.  But at this point
it's just semantics; I think I get what you're saying.

I don't see this as an argument so much as an excuse.  There's nothing
to argue, really.  Yes, the infrastructure for oil as a fuel source is
already in place, so it's ahead of the game when compared to newer
energy paradigms.  I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.

There is still a comparison to be made between fossil fuels and other
sources of energy, and some very heavy factors involved in that
comparison, besides existing infrastructure.

>>I don't doubt that we will be using fossil fuels for a long time to
>>come, and of course, economics will drive us wherever we go. The
>>problem is that there is a cost associated with the widespread
>>adoption of most alternate energy sources, and it just doesn't make
>>economic sense to wait until oil is too expensive (aren't we there
>>yet?) or until it's all used up to start thinking about these other
> I thought you weren't concerned about the costs but more about the
> and moving to another source?  I will bet that we will not run out
of oil in
> our lifetimes or our kids.  We may be lead to believe we are but that
> doesn't mean we are.

I didn't mean to imply that I saw the costs involved with energy as
unimportant.  I was just trying to point out that a "solution" that
merely lowers the cost of domestic oil does not address the goal I seek.

And yeah, it's totally within the realm of possibility that we will
not run out of fossil fuels any time soon, but that doesn't mean it
can do no wrong, nor that we shouldn't look at other technologies and
really find what's best.

Jon Heese

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