[DMCForum] Re: Religion Continued (Ryan)

["ryanpwright" <yahoo1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Bill,

>> The problem is: human beings are sinful. Always have been. Always 
>> will be. (Jesus didn't take that away). This means that we will be 
>> forever separated from God -- without a catalyst (Jesus). 

Yes; that's what I meant. I didn't mean to imply that we no longer
sin, just that he "took our sin away" - in other words, we have been
forgiven of our sins, and they will no longer be our eternal death
sentence.

>> Being a Christian is no silver bullet. Making a commited decision 
>> to yield control of your earthly life to God will not innoculate 
>> you from harm, hardship, or other nastiness. In fact it may well 
>> make them WORSE as He leads you to places and situations where your
>> service is needed most

This is absolutely true. However, I don't believe God will put you in
a situation that you cannot handle. He will prepare you beforehand and
help you while you are there.

-Ryan

--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "content22207" <brobertson@xxxx> wrote:
> Bad news: Old Testament is every bit as Christian as the New. Jesus
> did NOT come to negate or otherwise do away with it (Matthew 5:17). He
> came to fulfill Jewish anticipation of the Messiah -- a persistent
> theme throughout early books of the Bible, which we share with the
> Tanakh. In fact, how many people recognize that Jews and Christians
> are even today looking towards the same event: future arrival of the
> Messiah? (Jews are looking for him to come the first time, Christians
> are looking for him to come again).
> 
> "Old Testament" and "New Testament" are technically the "Old Covenant"
> and "New Covenant". Check out Jeremiah 31:22, 31-34.
> 
> Jesus was very Jewish. That's why he was in Jerusalem for Passover. By
> definition he couldn't have been a Christian until AFTER the
> resurrection (Christians believe in a resurrected Savior). 
> 
> God is revealed differently in the Old Testament for several reasons:
> - Human capacity to understand him was more limited
> - Jews were living a violent existence of ongoing warfare (curiously
> they depended on their enemies to make their weapons -- 1 Samuel
> 13:19-20). This was reflected in their writings
> - Quite simply, God was doing what God needed to do at that time. Just
> imagine trying to convince an ancient Israelite to turn the other
> cheek and love the Philistines!
>  
> For fun contrast crowd reaction to God as revealed in Exodus 19:18
> versus Matthew 5:1-2.
> 
> Re: Jesus "taking away" human sin: God and sin simply do not mix.
> Can't happen. It's just like oil and water. God's perfection
> unequivocally separates Him from sinfulness. The problem is: human
> beings are sinful. Always have been. Always will be. (Jesus didn't
> take that away). This means that we will be forever separated from God
> -- without a catalyst (Jesus). That's the big deal of the Temple
> curtain tearing in two at his death (Mark 15:38). Remember: God
> resided (Ark of the Covenant) in the Holiest of Holies, on the other
> side of that curtain. Only the high priest was allowed in there -- God
> was separated from everyone else by the curtain. His death fixed that,
> forever.
> 
> Being a Christian is no silver bullet. Making a commited decision to
> yield control of your earthly life to God will not innoculate you from
> harm, hardship, or other nastiness. In fact it may well make them
> WORSE as He leads you to places and situations where your service is
> needed most (usually not the kind of places characterized as peaceful
> and tranquil). But you'll never be alone. God not only directs your
> call, he girds you for the task, catches your back thoughout, picks
> you up and comforts you if you fall, or congratulates and validates
> you if you don't. 
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ryanpwright" <yahoo1@xxxx> wrote:
> > > Farrar, every single one of the things you posted up to the Jesus
> > > quotations were Old Testament, meaning Jewish, meaning before Jesus.
> > 
> > Right. I was about to say the same thing. I probably should have said
> > "New Testament" in my previous response. This is the new covenant with
> > Jesus. I suppose you can look at it as "the new way we do things
> > around here."
> > 
> > The God of the Old Testament was an angry and vengeful God. Jesus
> > changed that by taking away our sin. Through Him we are now seen as
> > "worthy" enough to enter Heaven.
> > 
> > The rest of this message is a response to Farrar:
> > 
> > >> My point was that you can take any reading you want from various 
> > >> portions of any holy book and use it to justify anything
> > 
> > You're absolutely right. There are quite a few various "Christian"
> > groups who see things very differently from one another. It all
> > depends on your interpretation of the Bible. Two people can read a
> > given passage and come away with two very different ideas about what
> > it meant.
> > 
> > There is ample evidence throughout the New Testament of Jesus'
> > behavior and what he requires of us. Nobody could make a rational case
> > that it would be right in the eyes of God to go out and harm others.
> > It's like these nutcases killing abortion doctors in the "name of
> > God." The Christian God that I know and believe in does not support
> > their actions, and no rational Christian would support them, either. 
> > 
> > -Ryan
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "supremeadmiralsenn"
> > <AdmiralSenn@xxxx> wrote:
> > > Okay, now I get to un-lurk myself for this list.
> > > 
> > > Farrar, every single one of the things you posted up to the Jesus
> > > quotations were Old Testament, meaning Jewish, meaning before Jesus.
> > > 
> > > Plus, if God says to do it, I think it's okay. Best not to mess with
> > > the big guy.
> > > 
> > > And as for the Jesus quotations seeming to incite violence,
nope. Most
> > > of those passages refer to the fact that Jesus was and is
> > > controversial, and not that he was supporting rebellion or
something.
> > > 
> > > By the way, what the heck kind of Bible do you have? I've never even
> > > heard of 3/4 of what you said, and I've done some looking into the
> > > controversial stuff in the Bible.
> > > 
> > > Oh, by the way: A lot of what you said was out of context. If
you read
> > > Luke 19 from the beginnning, that is actually Jesus speaking in a
> > > parable, not speaking as himself. 
> > > 
> > > It really burns me when people say things to prove their points
> > > against the Bible, and it's all out of context. 
> > > 
> > > Not trying to start an argument, so please don't think I'm
bashing on
> > > you. I just thought I'd get my say in.

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