RE: [DML] Re:Possible fuel leak-down problem
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RE: [DML] Re:Possible fuel leak-down problem



Scott,

>From what I gather you have already replaced the fuel pump, fuel distributor
(or at least the Pres. Reg./check valve) & accumulator which accounts for
98% of leak-down problems. Here's what I suggest to do. If you don't have
access to a gauge (the best way to confirm a leak-down problem) simply warm
up the engine and shut it off. Wait 30 to 45 minutes and using a rag to
catch the fuel (very important to wrap it loosely around the C. S. Valve)
and a 12mm wrench crack the banjo bolt loose on top of the Cold Start Valve.
If you don't know what that is read the workshop manual or have someone
qualified do this for you. That is not a slight as this is a safety issue.
Fuel should spray out sideways as it's still under pressure. If it dribbles
out then you do still have a leak-down problem. If you do then pick up the
phone and call Don and let him know your findings. I'm sure he'll be happy
to recheck the fuel system for you now KNOWING it's still a leak-down
problem. Have him or again some qualified person start by removing the
double 19mm banjo bolt on the passenger side of the distributor next to the
pressure regulator/check valve and observe how many seconds it takes for a
drop of fuel to drip out of the thread area (dry them first with a cloth).
If it takes less than ten seconds you have a defective fuel distributor or
check valve which should be warranty-able. You won't find this spec. in any
book... I had to figure this out my own after experiencing the same problem
you describe. I have seen this happen before and it would be the first thing
I'd check at this point in time. Please let me know if this helps as people
on the DML often don't give me any feedback as to whether my advice helped
them or not. If it doesn't help you it may help some of the other five
people you mentioned.

Rob Grady,

P.J.Grady Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Scot Stern
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:50 PM
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [DML] Re: Question for owners with issues.

Robert,

Thank you for your response to my problem concerning the hot start.  
Frankly, after reading it several times, it is in my opinion clearly 
an attack / flame post.

I find it interesting that nine people responded on the board to the 
problem and another five emailed me directly to indicate that they 
had similar situations without much resolve.  Apparently, I am not 
the "Lone Ranger" when it comes to hot start problems.

Yes, I do have a manual and I find it to be of little help which is 
why I enlisted the aid of the board to see if they had any practical 
experience that they could share.  The manual is wonderful 
scintillating reading if you want to know where the engine is located.

You say that hot start problems are not normal for the Delorean yet 
the posts on this board say otherwise.  To confirm this, I took the 
car to a recognized reputable vendor over five times to try and have 
this issue resolved.  He replaced the fuel pump, accumulator, and 
fuel distributor and still this car will not start when the engine is 
hot!  He was stumped and offered no further solution.

This has nothing to do with the outside temperature so, seeing cars 
start in triple digit weather really is not germane.  The problem can 
happen in any ambient temperature and is solely affected by leaving 
the car for a short period of time after it has run and then trying 
to restart it.

I have owned many fuel injected engines in airplanes, cars, boats and 
other watercraft and this car is the only one that will not start 
when it is heat soaked.  I have seen similar situations with airplane 
engines and you simply "boost pump" it to re-pressurize the injectors 
and it starts.

Now, if you read your own board, you will see that people have 
suggested that I change a relay, re-change the accumulator, change 
the O rings, change the fuel distributor the check valve and the fuel 
pump.  It is interesting to me that no one seems to agree on 
specifically what is wrong and what I should change. I did learn, as 
a result of these posts that it could be a relay which I had not 
heard before, and candidly that was the purpose of asking.  I wanted 
to ascertain if there were any other view points on this problem.

Lastly, the suggestion of the switch came from one of your esteemed 
members not from my imagination.  I thought that at least this would 
offer some piece of mind until I could find a more permanent method 
of fixing the problem.

One very nice vendor suggested that I get a CIS device and I asked if 
there was somewhere special to get one of these and there were three 
answers.  It appears that this subject was also of interest to all 
concerned.

Robert, I really don't know why you are bitter about someone asking 
for assistance.  Fortunately, the Delorean is not the only car that I 
own and I do not depend upon it for daily transportation.  It is 
simply a "toy" and while I would like to have it operate properly I 
am not convinced that it is as simple a problem as you seem to think 
that it is.  Apparently, judging by the posts and the private emails 
that I got many others seem to agree.

As another thoguht, from my perspective, I do not consider a Delorean 
to be a high-end car.  I have several others that might be closer to 
that status but yet, that is only relative as what I would think to 
be high-end, Bill Gates probably would not.

Robert, since you are apparently the self-appointed moderator of the 
DMC board, maybe you should post what we can or can't talk about so 
that the rules are clear to all concerned.

Please cherish this post as my last contribution as I did find your 
post offensive and aggressive. Fortunately, not being able to post on 
this board will not place undue hardship on me or the ownership of my 
car. 

Lasty, any automobile that has as many posts as the Delorean car 
seems to have that relate to the car simply starting when it is hot, 
must have a design flaw somewhere.  Think about it......       



--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas@xxxx> 
wrote:
>
> Let me start off by saying that I am not intending for this post to 
be
> a flame. It's not an attack, just an honest question for people.
> 
> I've been pretty dormant on this, and other lists for a while now, 
but
> I have been reading some of the topics that have recently been
> discussed. Two in particular are regarding "valleyrat's" failed smog
> test, and Scott's Hot-Start issue. And I honestly have to ask this:
> 
> Do any of you own a Workshop Manual?
> 
> Allot of questions that I'm seeing on here are uber-simple ones that
> should already have been obvious with a workshop manual, and a 
little
> automotive know how.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that everyone here
> should be at the level of an ASE mechanic. After all, this is a 
forum
> for DIY'ers seeking help. But if you're asking about an engine 
running
> lean, and you've not yet hit it with a timing light, then let's 
take a
> step back, and even ask how to do that, before tearing your exhaust
> system apart to shine a light into the Catalytic Convertor.
> 
> Hot Start problems are NOT normal on the DeLorean, or any car that
> uses a K-Jetronic fuel injection system. I've seen DeLoreans fire-up
> in triple digit heat, and have only taken about a second-long turn 
of
> the key to do so. For a beater Volvo that ends up on some
> "Buy-Here/Pay-Here" car lot in the middle of the ghetto, yes, the
> Hot-Start relay is needed, because it's assumed that people will NOT
> properly maintain these cars in the long run. For a high-end car 
such
> as the DeLorean, it's assumed that proper maintenance will negate 
the
> installation of a band-aid remedy.
> 
> Now I know that sounds a bit harsh. And I wouldn't normally be so
> frank in my words for someone who is still getting familiar with 
their
> car. But 10 YEARS and you still have this issue?    Even if you're 
not
> handy with a wrench, I can understand. But at the very least, be 
more
> aggressive with your mechanic and demand that the issue you paid for
> to be resolved, gets properly taken care of. Especially if you're
> already armed with the knowlege of how the affected system(s) 
function.
> 
> Like I say, I've seen DeLoreans fire up in all sorts of weather, and
> not have an issue. So this is NOT a "design flaw" with the DeLorean
> car itself. If there is any flaw in this case, it's flawed diagnotic
> procedure that's been performed on your car by both your mechanic, 
AND
> by you (that "design flaw" statement is insulting to me, and other
> owners who's cars operate properly). It's a machine, not a deity.
> Money means nothing to it. So throwing cash at the car's issue(s) 
will
> not appease the gremlins inside, and make the issue magicly go away.
> 
> You've got two potential issues: 1. Electrical, or 2. Fuel Pressure.
> And if it is Fuel Pressure related (as it typicly is), you need to
> perform the proper diagnotic procedure to determine it as such. THEN
> determine what has to be replaced, and start the diagnosis procedure
> over again if it's still not resolved.
> 
> I don't care if you buy *new* stuff from John Hervey, or 25 year old
> *NOS* parts from DMCH. Age has nothing to do with the fact that some
> parts may leave the factory defective. So just because it was 
replaced
> once, doesn't mean that the new part is any better off than the
> *defective* one you replaced. Assuming of course that proper
> troubleshooting is what determined it to be bad in the first place.
> 
> You have 5 components of the Fuel Injection system that are
> responsible for maintaining fuel pressure while the system is at 
rest.
> Performing the reccomending system test will help you determine 
which,
> if any, of these components are at fault.
> 
> Now I know that this post has sounded a bit mean, but believe me, 
it's
> more of a "tough love" message here. My solution for you isn't to 
take
> the car into a vendor to get the issue fixed. No, I think that it's
> high time you hunker down, and bust a few knuckles fixing the issue
> yourself. Unless someone doesn't have a cost-prohibative tool (ie.
> alignment rack, exhaust gas analyser), or they lack valuable
> experience in a particular area (ie. MVAC, or electronics repair) 
that
> requires the use of a vendors services, there is no reason that 
people
> shouldn't be working on their cars themselves. Even if you're tight 
on
> workspace where you can tear the car apart, you need to at least be
> able to partially diagnose the issue yourself, and talk it over with
> your mechanic.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"
>








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