[DML] Re: Carburator (David T)

["stainlessilusion" <5n-@xxxxxxx>]

With EFI, in order to fix your car you need to hook it up to a
computer in order to find out what's wrong. That means you first have
to get your car to the computer-if it is in a shop they charge you to
just hook it up and then more to read the readings. As Bill mentioned,
carburetion is simple. We all know it has been around far longer then
EFI so the technology has already been fully studies, understood, and
the improvements to the carburetor have already been made. Meaning:
The Holley carburetor is much more improved then the Stromberg
downdraft, Holley studied the problem areas of the old carbs to
engineer a new one. Instead of rods, valves, springs etc-in EFI you
have a computer controlling everything, meaning modules, tons of
wires, much more components, more of something means the more chance
you have of failing. When my 67 Mustang doesn't start, I know why,
when my fathers 2004 Ford Ranger doesn't start...forget trying to
figure out why-call the tow truck. Ultimately, the little group of us
trying to experiment with carburetion want it for those reasons:
simple, costs very little, easy to maintain, opens up all kinds of
room, easily tunable, and the list goes on. Car companies with FI
wanted to use technology with the chips and etc,  and to make it easy
for the owner to maintain-don't have to touch the engine-instead of us
who have to go out in the winter and adjust the choke and accelerator
pump rod down a hole-big deal. The companies don't care that come
20-30 year the FI system will be very troublesome and costly to
replace, but then again; they're not thinking about the long run,
especially now that they're making these disposable cars. A 60 year
old car built to LAST? Buy (or better yet-REBUILD for 20 mins) and
install a new carb-you're all set. How much does EFI cost these days?
-----Dani B. #5003


> Perhaps you meant to say "carburetion is tried and true technology"?
> 
> True, carburetion does not meet everyone's needs. But for those of
> like mind (at least half a dozen on this List), it is a fool proof and
> trouble free method of fuel delivery.
> 
> (Thought I explained as much in Message #48334).
> 
> I'm not interested in making my car "more advanced". I'm interested in
> making it simple, reliable, and easy to maintain. For example:
> - My intake manifold comes off in a minute or so to access plumbing in
> the Valley of Death (popped it off and reinstalled at a gas station
> once *WHILE* filling the tank). I can also reach into the Valley of
> Death from above the engine. Of course clamps on the back of the water
> pump are accessible with manifold still in place.
> - Changing cap, rotor, plugs & wires takes well less than 30 minutes. 
> - Haven't pulled it off yet, but eventual water pump replacement
> should also be less than 30 minutes (not only is it fully exposed, but
> my pump is held to the block by stainless studs & nuts).
> - Clutch slave cylinder, heater core shutoff valve, heater core
> takeoff barb, temp gauge sending unit, etc are also fully exposed for
> easy replacement.
> - Fuel distributor, fuel injectors, copper washers, injector boots,
> banjo bolts, fuel lines, CPR, delay valve, thermal vacuum switch,
> hidden vacuum lines, frequency valve, idle speed motor, idle speed
> motor takeoff O ring, U pipe gaskets, spark advance cutoff solenoid,
> idle speed microswitch, full throttle microswitch, thermal time
> switch, cold start injector, cold start tube O ring, O2 sensor, Lambda
> and idle speed ECU's, fuel accumulator, and clips on the throttle
> spool connecting rod will never need replacement because they aren't
> on my vehicle.
> - Low PSI fuel pump IS in the tank ($12.99). A cartridge fuel filter
> IS in the engine compartment ($1.99). Rubber fuel lines DO connect
> them ($.99 per foot), held tight by band clamps ($.50 each). And I DO
> have an air filter ($2.99).
> 
> Note also that I have none of the running issues that keep popping up
> on this List:
> - Engine starts on the first key turn.
> - Idle speed does not fluctuate. Carb does have a fast idle cam that
> predictably steps down as its spring warms up (opens the choke plate
> at the same time).
> - Engine vacuum itself draws fuel through the venturi, so metering
> always matches throttle setting.
> - I have an improved tank baffle & pickup of my own design, but they
> really isn't necessary because the pump only puts out 4-6 PSI, and
> carb actually draws from its own reserve in the bowls.
> - Engine hasn't cut off on me yet, but I expect it to do so the first
> time car flips upside down (inertia switch isn't necessary either).
> 
> You mentioned expense -- exclusive of the manifold, carburetion costs
> $200+.
> 
> What I find quaint is the reverence paid to "modern" cars, especially
> considering no one hangs onto one of them for more than 5 years or so.
> My daily transportation are carbureted vehicles 24-28 years old. They
> all start on the first key turn. They all run perfectly, even in 20
> degree weather (that's what a properly functioning choke plate does
> for you). I maintain each of them myself for the cost of parts, which
> cost a fraction new car parts. Maintenance also takes a fraction of
> the time required for new car maintenance simply because access is so
> much easier.
> 
> BTW: have I ever told you I still drive in daily service the same car
> I drove in high school? May be "quaint" to you, but I find it way
> cool. How many people can make such a claim to longevity? I've
> uploaded a pic to #5939's photo album until Dave Swingle knocks it down.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty@xxxx>
wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > All this talk about going BACKWARDS is quaint. Carbureation is OLD
> > TECHNOLOGY. If anything we should be experimenting with EFI and full
> > engine management. As advanced as K Jetronic was in it's time, it was
> > a continuous system. The future went to pulsed injection so K-Jet is
> > only a small step above carburaters anyway. Just about all automakers
> > have gone to full engine management to improve driveability,
> > reliablity, emmisions, and performance. Aside from the expense of
> > doing it, it sounds like a winning combination. No more distributer,
> > more tolerant of blended gas, no problems with extreme hot, cold,
> > altitude, in short it will run like a modern car! Right now the engine
> > has 3 black boxes to keep it running (ignition, Lambda, and idle), 4
> > if you include voltage regulation. 5 if you have an automatic. All
> > that could be put into one and all functions integrated and fully
> > adjustable. It would be a monuemental job but I am sure the right
> > person could do it! Now THAT would be interesting, not some carburator
> > bolted onto a manifold! Just think, you could incorporate the cooling
> > fans (aka Fanzilla or whatever) the door locks, remote entry, the
> > wiper delay module, the interior lighting delay, and on, and on. That
> > electronic dashboard now would incorporate all of these signals and
> > more. With a small plasma display you could have all kinds of
> > messages. Now we are talking FUTURE!!!
> > David Teitelbaum
> > vin 10757
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Marc Levy <malevy_nj@xxxx> wrote:
> > > 
> > > FWIW;
> > > 
> > > Charles Muffley put a carb on his DeLorean using the
> > > stock intake..
> > > 
> > > --- content22207 <brobertson@xxxx> wrote:
> > >








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