Re: [DML] Electromotive anyone? Yes. Hmmm.

["jtipton" <Jtipton@xxxx>]

Pete, sounds like a big project. More power to ya if you want to do it. I
was just concerned because It sounds like you're going to spend ALOT of
money end up with less than what you bargained for and with nightmarish
tuning issues on top of it all.

I by no means am against taking a stock motor and making it faster/more
efficent. Im very familiar with the concept. I have a 400hp Mazda Miata
that we built with a TEC II using the STOCK MOTOR and turbo.
Im also a fan of motor swapped cars, I have a Monster Miata, with a built
302 5 liter V8 and nitrous.
http://www.onlineshowoff.com/index.asp?section=profile&username=OneFastMiata

I dont think your DeLorean is going to end up meeting your KISS principle
( keep it simple sucker).
The Electromotive tuning and systems is anything but simple. And as I said,
you're going to end up having to machine a custom crank trigger and other
custom bits to make it work on the D. BUt if you're going to the expense of
having a custom intake welded up, then maybe having other parts machined
wont bother you.

When I built my stock motor miata, I too designed both an intake manifold
and exhaust manifold and had them jigg'd and welded up out of stainless from
burns stainless. Interestingly enough I had an ex employee from Hennessey
do some of the welding work for me. After several test and tune sessions
the exhaust manifold ended up costing $1800.
Due to cost I decided to forego the intake manifold, and just have the
stocker extrude honed.

I think that a custom intake on a Delorean will cost an equal fortune as
the miata, and I dont know that simply having the stocker honed, and putting
a bigger throttle body on wouldnt be MUCH easier. Problem is, I really doubt
a company like RC engineering or one of the standards is gonna have DeLorean
big bore throttle bodies. So you're gonna have to get your stocker honed and
find a butterfly that will work. Again, more psuedo hassle.

While Im here May I ask, how does one remove the cams should they "go bad"
which was very much a problem on the volvo motor. In fact, when presented
with the "cam problem" they typically DRILLED THRU THE FIREWALL on volvo's
to get them out due to the engine design. Has anyone here replaced cams
on their D?


I noticed David Teitelbaums reply to this thread too. And I agree with
him, I'd find a hotter ignition, and I'd look into a fuel controller. I
think I'd pass on the TEC if I were you. I think you'll find the TEC is
gonna be a big can of worms on the D.

David Teitelbaum, QUOTE,
"Of course you would have to do
something with the intake and exhaust to improve breathing and you would
have to lower the compression and change the cam". END QUOTE

David I assume you mean raise the compression? If you were going to build a
NA DeLorean motor, you'd want to raise the compression considerably.

As it stands the DeLorean compression is pretty much already ready have
Forced Induction added, but I'd be afraid of scattering the motor.

Again, I just think that between custom intake manifolds and throttle bodies
and TEC III's etc etc etc the project is gonna cost a zillion dollars and
still end up having relatively ho-hum performance.

When you start talking about adding turbo chargers....I'm a little more
intrigued, however I still wonder what kind of power you can pass thru this
motor without it scattering. Transmission? Diffs?

Cheers
Jennifer Tipton
Louisville Kentucky




----- Original Message -----
From: <zamphyr2000@xxxx>
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Electromotive anyone? Yes.


> Thanks for the info Jen...
>
> Actually my soon-to-be-inherited Baby is currently a dead vehicle,
> with a history of heat and moisture related problems (Houston, Texas
> you know...). I am used to 300HP+ V8's but I also think the concept
> of the PRV is in the right place, they were just so far ahead of
> their time that they couldnt get the correct parts (aka EFI in place
> of MFI). It would be part of a major rebuild anyway, and why not
> take what JZD did and try and improve on it a bit?
>
> The reasons for the upgrade are:
>
> 1) Modernization - I am a systems control engineer and think my
> laptop can handle the fine tuning... I love optimizing systems and
> trying to make the inconceviable actual.
>
> 2) Power and Torque increase. The (pathetic) stock HP and torque are
> substandard in my book. The silver streak should be able to back up
> its looks with action. An EFI and ignition control system to replace
> the ECU in the D is a significant improvement (read vacuum tube to
> silicon transistor differential) that will allow for wide variations
> in daily parameters to be compensated for. An automotive engine is
> in reality a giant air pump. If you can optimize the work out by
> enabling a greater unit of mass (air) through the system and
> increasing the combustion efficency (chemical mass and energy in),
> then the same piece of equipment can do much more. The D stock block
> and heads are so well engineered, I dont believe engine swaps are
> necessary, and turbos should only be used to eek out that extra after
> the system is finely tuned....
>
> 3) Fuel economy - $ - enough said...
>
> 4) Pride... if I can take a car that was designed in the 70s, built
> in the 80's died in the 90's and make it run better, faster and
> stronger than it ever did, I would be pretty content with myself for
> some time.
>
> 5) the KISS principle - keep it simple, sucker... the fewer
> mechanical parts in a vehicle, the less that can go wrong with it
> from normal wear and tear. Replacing the mechanical parts with non-
> contact equivalents improves engine efficency, total vehicle weight
> (tho only by an estimated 100 pounds) and eliminates many of the
> common problems with the D.
>
> My current plan is as follows:
>
> a.) Strip engine out of car
> b.) Eliminate all archaic low efficency parts (MFI system,
> Distributor, engine management system, failed electronics, and fuel
> management system)
> c.) Install engineered more efficent throttle body and intake
> manifold (from Hennessey, engineered by yours truely for optimal
> flow) that is capable of Forced Air Induction (turbo or supercharger)
> for future improvements.
> d.) Have the Stage I improvement installed from DMCH
> e.) Install TEC3 system and Fuel Management hardware
> f.) Tune (OK this one will honestly be the longest part) for use as a
> daily driver...
> g.) Drive car....
>
> OK I also have a little question... why would you not want to
> optimize the PRV.. it is a genuinely awesome engineering marvel as
> the block and concepts go. Theoretical maximum HP and torque should
> be 125hp/L and 100ft-lb of torque per liter naturally aspirated.
> Achieving 85-90% of that (instead of 50% the stock D came with) would
> be a significnat improvement in my book.
>
> In other words, I want a project car that will act as good as it
> looks, but I recognize it will be a PROJECT!
>
> Pete