Re: [doc] re idle problems
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Re: [doc] re idle problems
- From: Nick Tomlinson <nickandkathryntomlinson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:52:59 +0000 (GMT)
You can use this information if you like Steve but this is how I test the idle speed motor:
The motor is NOT s stepper motor, it is standard motor with 2 windings opposing each other and it is NOT spring loaded.
There are 3 pins on the top of the idle speed motor.
The centre pin has a 12v supply from the ECU.
The 2 outer pins are connected to the other end of the windings.
The ECU momentarily earths this connection to move the idle speed motor around a bit to open and close the rotary valve to open/ close the passage that allows more or less air to pas through resulting in a controlled idle speed.
First use a multimeter set to OHMS. Measure the resistance between the centre pin and one of the outer pins. This should not be open circuit or short circuit.
Note this reading and then do the same for the centre pin and the other outer pin. This checks the other winding and should be the same value. If this is OK then go to the next step.
With the idle speed motor off the car, use a 3 AMP FUSED cable to connect 12v (+)from a car battery to the centre pin.
With a cable from the 0v (-) off a car battery MOMENTARILY (less then half a second) connect this to one of the outer terminals.
This will rotate the motor very quickly fully in one direction and be either fully closed or fully open.
Do the same test but use the 0v (-) off the car battery MOMENTARILY (less then half a second) to the other outer terminal.
This will rotate the motor very quickly fully in the other direction and be either fully closed or fully open opposite to the first test.
If you get this far then the idle speed motor is fine and wiring would be suspect.
DON'T GO ADJUSTING SOMETHING YOU THINK MAY MAKE IT WORK WITHOUT TESTING ITEMS FIRST AS THIS WILL MAKE THE ENGINE RUN WORSE. DO NOT ADJUST THE CO SCREW RANDOMLY UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EXHAUST GAS ANALYSER (CAT BYPASS SYSTEMS) OR KNOW HOW TO ADJUST THE CO SCREW IN RELATION TO THE OXYGEN SENSOR/ FUEL COMPUTER OUTPUT.
My motto in life is MEASURE TWICE, FIX ONCE.
Doing the check I said on my last post would have proved if the idle system was at fault in the engine running. If the engine ran fine with the last test then you narrow it down to an issue with the idle speed system.
I would also check all of the wiring from the ECU to the plug to the ECU following the wiring diagram.
Also check fuse #1 as this powers up the ECU (I assume you have checked this already as this would be the first place I would have checked)
Also check the white wire from the ECU to the negative post on the coil as this is where the ECU gets it's speed reference from. (Could also be a duff suppressor on the coil)
Do you have a copy of the workshop manual?
If not it would probably easier for you to read this than asking questions on the newsgroup.If you don't have a copy I will happily post you a CD with mine on it as it also includes my notes on.
It would save you time, effort, frustration and money in part swapping trust me :)
NickT.
blackaddertoo <blackaddertoo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi
thanx for the post.
must admit. haven't tried this but perhaps will as if it then idles
ok, my problem is definately the wiring or something.
just looked at the wiring diagram and will check all the wire, diode
etc with a meter.
i used to do some electronics years ago so not completely in the
dark.
by the way i don't mind all this too much as its all part of
restoring and getting another car on the road. am looking forward to
driving her though.
i really want that MOT by next spring.
Regards
Steve
--- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Richard Hutchinson"
wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Have you tried what Nick suggested again over a week ago??
>
> "As said in previous post, you can completely remove the idle speed
> motor (large black can size of baked bean tin on left hand side of
> engine when viewed from the rear. Block the 2 rubber pipes with a
large
> bolt in each (v important).
>
> Fully seat the 3 brass screws (just above the W shaped part of
the
> inlet manifold when stood from the rear of the engine) by hand, DO
NOT
> OVERTIGHTEN THEM.
> Then, undo the 2 nearest to you by 2.5 turns and then the one
furthest
> away by 7 full turns. This should get the car to idle at a fixed
rate."
> ....
>
> This simple test would have bypassed the idle speed system
completely
> and eliminated a whole host of unnecessary and costly bits-
swapping.
>
> Rich Hutchinson
> DOC 365 VIN 1274
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> Of
> > blackaddertoo
> > Sent: 16 December 2005 00:00
> > To: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [doc] re idle problems
> >
> > Hi Martin
> >
> > thanx anyway, if they are Ok could you recorded post back and i
will
> > payapl your fee over.
> > at least i can eliminate them as the problem.
> >
> > i need to check the ecu is getting the correct pulses perhaps, is
> > powering up ok etc.
> > can a test meter or light be put on the motor leads when
running. i
> > assume the power to the motor is pulsed as it is a stepper motor
> > isn't it, with a sensor telling the euc where it is? (open or
shut).
> > perhaps i need to give the co adusting screw half a turn left or
> > right to see if that helps.
> >
> > as i said, the injector squirt with light pressure from the air
> > intake plate, so i thought no problems there, the spray pattern
> > looked healthy.
> >
> > i will check the leads as these are the one thing i did not do.
> >
> > what should they read on a test meter?. and i will check the fire
> > sequence. i have some of the neon flashers to try aswell.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > steve
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Martin Gutkowski
wrote:
> > >
> > > Bad news I'm afraid - both checked out fine. I fitted both to
> > my "Tinny"
> > > and it behaved perfectly. Including hunting when rich, revving
on
> > > startup etc. Goign to run a cld start test in the morning but
it's
> > not
> > > looking likely there's problem.
> > >
> > > Martin
> > > DMC Ltd
> > >
> > > blackaddertoo wrote:
> > >
> > > >hi Martin
> > > >
> > > >just wondered if you had had any luck.
> > > >
> > > >i know it sounds funny, but i'm hoping the idle motor is
iffy, as
> > i'm
> > > >running out of options.
> > > >
> > > >Regards
> > > >
> > > >Steve
> > > >
> > > >doc 370
> > > >vin 1621
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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