Re: [doc] Ford with gull-wing doors/TRUTH about Avantime
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Re: [doc] Ford with gull-wing doors/TRUTH about Avantime



I can appreciate your argument as you have mechanical foundation to it rather than the usual blind passion.

As far as modern French cars are concerned, it's actually because I've driven loads of them recently (had to deliver them as they were hire cars) that I've made this point.  I've driven about 20 brand new Lagunas with both petrol and diesel engines and also a load of Clios.  My take on the built quality and feel of both cars was that if this is what they have to offer in 2005, what must they have been like in years gone by.

Still, until Brussels takes away our liberty completely and makes us all drive the same cars we are permitted to choose, and at leats if this list stays on the topic of DeLoreans we know we have all pledged out allegiance to the marque and these debates will not break out.

Regards,

Mike Sumner - 178
1999 BMW E36 Coupe


Martin Gutkowski <martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mike Sumner wrote:

> I saw one at a motor showwhen they'd just come out and had a sit in it
> and I was frankly appauled by the fact that when the door is shut with
> the window down you can hear the glass rattle inside the frame. 

Hey, my DeLorean does that! Perhaps what you saw at the show was a true
prototype.

> Perhaps one day the French will learn how to build cars properly that
> don't have gearboxes that feel like a ruler in some porridge, steering
> with no feel that's over-assisted, and doors that clang when closed.

When was the last time you actually drove a modern French car?

I've owned and driven Citroens since day one when I passed my test. I
will not try and defend the raliability of the earlier hydro-pneumatic
systems because my old BX was forever going wrong. However the later
H-reg one we bought for £100 has so far done 12,000 miles and has only
needed service items to keep it going. It has electric everything
(pretty much for a car of its age and price range) and everything, bar a
couple of dash bulbs, still works perfectly. Oh and the clock
illumination needs thumping now and again!

What I won't hear of is anyone poking at the Xantia. The later facelift
models are stonkingly good cars. I guarantee, without hesitation, that
my Xantia  would outshine your BMW on a twisty track - and it's a
diesel. The Xantia Activa takes more lateral G before letting go than a
Testarossa. The build quality of my Xantia is good, FWIW - nothing's
gone wrong yet in the interior at 140,000 mile and counting - well OK
the robot left its mark on the boot but I -am- impressed with Citroen's
ability to spot likely "easy-damagable" parts and make them cheap and
easy to replace. The corner secions on the bumpers for example. I got
stuffed up the back by an MX5. His bill was £800. mine was a new corner
section on the bumper for £23. I'm more than happy with it, and I'm sure
-some- people on this list will tell you everything bad about BMW's.

So in short, don't tar all French cars with the same brush. Just like I
wouldn't say all BMW's are crap because of the X3. A guy at work bought
a BWM 320d while I was there and we went out to compare my Xantia with
his BM. Apart from cruise control (pointless in a diesel IMO) Mine had
everything the BM did and a lot more besides for £5k les money. The
engine was a lot less refined too, still being indirect injection with a
laggy turbo.

One thing's for sure - you don't get many people muttering "bloody
Citroen/ Renault/ Peugeot drivers" under their breath when yet another
rep-mobile cuts them up on the motorway. That rep-mobile usually has a
black, blue and white badge you see.

> As for German Ubersaloons.  Do you not think there's an extremely good
> reason why people in this country like to buy them?  Because they are
> subtly stylish as opposed to having angular, hacked at body shapes. 
> The French can try all they like but they will never topple the German
> dominated executive saloon market until their product is up to scratch.

This simple truth is that Peugeot/ Renault /Citroen have never achieved
the snob value of the BMW or Audi badge in this country. Once apon a
time it was justified. Now not so but a person is clever, people are
stupid. Look across continental qurope and the story's quite different.

>
> Remember the Renault Safrane?  What a success that was against the 3
> series.

Was it aimed at the 3 series? It's feckin huge - more like a 5 or a 7,
but let me guess, it was up for 3 series money. Doesn't that mean that
you could add "overpriced" to anything built in Germany? The Saf
does/did suffer from electrical faults and overpriced parts, but mark my
words - it will be a future classic. It's quite the most roomy
comfortable car I've ever driven, all the toys and leather on par with a
modern car, except sat-nav, for a car built in 1993. Now if I can just
fix the air suspension (pump's gone), and driver's seat (memory brain's
gone), it'll make an excellent courtesy car, having been bought for the
princely sum of £205. And when it does die, the engine will be recycled
with a dirty great big turbo and put in a DeLorean. Perhaps when you've
got yours one day and bring it in for a service, you can drive it home.

Martin
DMC Ltd
#1458
#4426
91 Citroen BX TZD Turbo
99 Xantia HDi Exclusive
94 Renault Safrane RXE V6 Executive


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