Re: [DMCForum] RE: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame
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Re: [DMCForum] RE: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame

I agree with Tim. You invest in a business then you're taking the risk right
along with the owner/operator.  It is not the same as Enron where the
employees of a company put all their eggs in one basket with their company
stock options.  I should know as I am a born and bred Houstonian, and in
fact until the first of this of this month when we moved to Biloxi I worked
right next to the old Enron building.  I watched the reporters outside the
Federal building everyday.  Anyways, that's getting off track.

For one Woody you seem to be quite opinionated on John DeLorean's methods
and motivations, which I find quite odd as I doubt you were a close personal
friend of the man.  You can reasearch all you want and find a multitude of
information from various sources, but third party information just can't be
absolute truth.  You're entitled to your opinion sure enough, but again I
find it odd for someone who owns 2 of his vehicles to be trashing the guy
left and right.

I don't believe anywhere in the post about nominating him did we act like
John DeLorean was a God, Super Human, or above and beyond deserving of
anyone else that is in the Hall of Fame.  Like others have pointed out he
has his flaws in his business sense, personal life, etc... (a.k.a. He's

I will be the first to admit I'm not a "car chick".  I know how to drive,
put gas in, put air in the tires, and take it for oil changes if hubby is
not available.  However, I am a good listener and I have learned a lot about
the dangerous things that Ford, GM, and Chevy have kept on the market
endangering human life for cost effectiveness.  If that is less immoral than
whatever you think John DeLorean did then I'm very sad.  I'm on this forum
mostly to keep track of club events, but I like to lend support to something
that's very near and dear my spouse's heart and I couldn't just not say
something. That's all.


On 11/24/06, timnagin <timnagin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>   I should have added that had the original DMC been successful all of
> this
> would be moot. Anything that John De Lorean is looked down on now would be
> heralded as pure genius and a risk taker that succeeded against all odds.
> Hell, these internet groups and other websites probably wouldn't even
> exist.
> Most of us probably wouldn't even have met each other. Well, that last
> part
> being a good thing is arguable. ;-)
> Greg
> _____
> From: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <> [mailto:
> dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <>] On Behalf Of
> timnagin
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 8:18 PM
> To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <>;
> DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <>
> Subject: RE: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame
> While some behavior being moral or ethical is dependant on one's views,
> requiring this of all people inducted in the automotive hall of fame would
> eliminate all inductees and future inductees. In our current PC-correct
> annoying world what is immoral and unethical now may not have been back
> then. For example, CEO's traveling like John De Lorean did on the Concord
> and living lavishly was a sign the company was doing well. These days that
> is looked down upon as excessive. I don't think he was a saint, but he did
> have a vision and now we are all sitting in it.
> Several of the suppliers for GM were recently affected by their failings
> and
> several people lost their jobs. Ford is experiencing similar events. Some
> have even accused Ford of actively backing the gay community which some
> find
> offensive and can fall into that "moral and ethical manner" you mentioned.
> If Ford and GM are doing these things should anyone who was inducted that
> worked for either company be de-listed from the hall of fame? Should Henry
> Ford be removed?
> The suppliers for DMC, as with any other company, are in it for the money.
> There are no 100% guarantees in life and running a business and being
> business owners they know that, as I am sure John De Lorean did as well.
> With risk comes reward, hopefully, and they knew this entering into the
> agreements. If you invest in something and it fails then tough shit for
> you. I read about people going back and trying to sue the companies, and
> where there is actual intentional fraud this is justified. Someone
> investing for their own profit potential can be guilty of the same greed.
> If they didn't fully understand what they were getting into and what the
> risks could be then, again, tough shit. Who is more guilty of greed, the
> one taking the investment in hopes of a large return or the one investing
> the money for the same?
> I wouldn't say John De Lorean did what he did knowing he would absolutely
> never repay the investments; that would be a serious tactical failure. In
> fact, I understand he spent a lot of personal money repaying some
> investors.
> I also understand Fred Dellis, of Legend Industries, remained good friends
> with him as well. Think about it, if he was only a con man and nothing
> more
> then the one best way to ensure you will receive no other investments is
> to
> screw the people who are investing in you. Being in the public eye as much
> as he was would further ensure no more investments. ENRON is a completely
> different matter, but it is interesting they and the original DMC were
> both
> handled by the same accounting firm of Arthur Andersen, who was
> investigated
> a few years ago for their business practices.
> As for the drug acquittal, someone please correct me if I am wrong but I
> understand he left a note stating he went to the meeting because of
> threats
> against his family. I would think John De Lorean would be the only one to
> know the absolute truth about this and, well, we will never know for sure.
> In my opinion, his acquittal shows more about those trying to bring him
> down.
> Some people seem to think that taking down the competition is the best way
> to ensure their survival, rather than actually innovating and succeeding
> based on their product being superior. Have you seen the movie about
> Preston Tucker, Tucker: The Man and His Dream? The parallels between him
> and John De Lorean are astounding, even though they are separated by
> thirty-five years.
> As I understand it, people are Inducted for what they achieved, not
> screwed
> up. The GTO and other innovations that he has patented, and the motoring
> world uses every day, just as with Preston Tucker, should be enough to get
> him in even if the DMC-12 is not.
> As always, anyone please feel free to correct any of my facts.
> Greg
> _____
> From: dmcnews@yahoogroups <mailto:dmcnews% <dmcnews%25>>
> .com
> [mailto:dmcnews@yahoogroups <mailto:dmcnews% <dmcnews%25>>
> .com] On
> Behalf Of
> Woody
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:15 AM
> To: dmcnews@yahoogroups <mailto:dmcnews% <dmcnews%25>>
> .com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame
> I'm on my second Delorean so I obviously like the car, feel it't very
> innovative and give the credit to John Delorean for creating such a
> unique car.
> That said, I feel that special recognitiion should be reserved for
> those that live their life and conducted their business in a that
> deserves the acolades. . . those that not only are creative and
> ambitious but live their live in a moral, ethical manner, that is, in a
> manner that you would want to be treated by someone you dealt with
> personally.
> My comments which follow will get the ire of those who hold JZD in some
> superhuman status that in my opinion he does not deserve.
> Sure, he designed a very innovative car.
> Sure, he had the ambition to make the car a reality.
> He also led a lot of suppliers down a path that led them into bankrupcy
> or business failure. He made promises he knew he could not keep. He
> took advantage of honest, trusting individuals to get them to continue
> to invest development funds (i.e., the turbo debacle) long after he
> knew he could not pay. He misled investors and employees in a manner
> that is reminicent of ENRON.
> How would you like it if you believed in someone, invested your life
> savings in their dream, only to find out they were using your money to
> live a jetset lifestyle? Do you find it OK for someone to take your
> life savings (or even your last paycheck) with a promise to repay when
> in reality they knew they never would be able to do so? Doesn't that
> make about as much sense as recognizing O.J. Simpson for his football
> accomplishments without recognizing the wrongful death judgment for
> murdering two people?
> Let's stay in the real world. Let's recognize the accomplishments
> associated with creating a new company to create a very innovative car
> (even withit's flaws). At the same time let's not put our head up our
> posterior when it comes to the flawed human traits that did
> conscious,avoidable, unjustifiable, irrepable harm to a lot of
> innocent, trusting individuals.
> I'm always open to new points of view so I welcome responses that are
> more than rationalizations of the acts of a creative, maniuplative,
> clever con man. And, lets not use the acquital on the drug charges to
> rationalize the ripoff of hundreds of suppliers. That's a logic jump
> reserved for those under 2 years of age.
> Woody
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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