RE: [doc] Re: re still doesn't idle ok

["Richard Hutchinson" <dickyh11@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Can you get it to idle at anything less than 1500 on the screws?

Rich H
DOC 365 VIN 1274

> -----Original Message-----
> From: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of
> blackaddertoo
> Sent: 19 January 2006 02:28
> To: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [doc] Re: re still doesn't idle ok
> 
> Hi
> 
> thanx Mike and Nick and anyone else who've helped.
> 
> i live near wolverhampton.
> 
> a good idea to drive...but...is not yet mot'd/registered.
> i know i could book her in then drive to the test station but i have
> to do the track rod ends (bolts are rusty and want to make sure they
> are safe)
> i need a front screen (but that could wait till after an mot run.
> 
> but main part i need a small section of frame welding, on passenger
> side by fuel tank.
> tank has got to come out again.
> 
> i will probably run the last checks on the coil feed, and if that
> does not work, readjust the screws and back out the garage and warm
> up (extinguisher at ready as first time for 12 years)
> 
> i may also put 12v across the idle motor to make it shut, then
> reconnect and see if it reopens.
> 
> i also wondered if i am looking in the wrong place for the fault, as
> obviously the idle motor feeds the air down the bypass brass pipe,
> whereas the screws feed it though the main manifold inlets.
> 
> so is my bypass pipe ok ( i have removed and replaced the seal)
> 
> i also have not tried to start while holding the flap down a touch
> (i think this enriches the mixture???)
> 
> thanx for the help, and believe it or not i enjoy the challenge of
> working on the car.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> --- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Mike Bosworth" <mike.bosworth@xxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steve
> >
> > If your car idles 'ok 'with the brass screw method and is ok to
> > drive ,then taking it for a real good run is going to help,
> > especially if its been sat some time like it appears to have been.
> >
> > At the end of this run how see how well the car has performed and
> > run, does it smell like its overfueling, missing, poor
> acceleration
> > etc etc, also an exhaust gas analyzer will give you a good
> indication
> > of how well the car is set up mixture wise, if thats way off its
> not
> > going to help for starters, but as has been previously said, dont
> > start fiddling with the mixture screw willy nilly  ( now theres a
> > phrase for you :) )
> >
> > Take it for a real good drive and let us know how it goes. If it
> goes
> > well then at least you have narrowed it down.
> >
> > I agree with all Nick is saying, and unfortunatly in this instance
> > there is only so much help people can give without actually seeing
> > the car, but we will keep trying are there any other owners near
> by
> > to you?  ...
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> > Mike
> > #2001
> >
> >
> > > however i cannot understand why the car idles with the brass
> screws
> > > adjusted.
> > > perhaps i need to see if the car warms up fully and drives ok
> that
> > > way?
> > > thanx again for your assistance.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Nick Tomlinson
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The coil connection is for pickup for the ignition amplifier
> > which
> > > is separate.
> > > > If this was faulty your car would not run at all (i.e. no
> spark)
> > > >
> > > > You will need to remove the coil cover and check for
> continuity
> > > between terminal marked "1" or "CB" and the pin at the idle
> speed
> > > ecu multiplug. Wire is white and slate I think. If this cable is
> > > open circuit then the idle speed ecu has no engine speed
> feedback.
> > > >
> > > > The blue wire (shielded) goes to the fuel computer and is from
> > > the oxygen sensor input cable.
> > > >
> > > > You should now have checked all the wiring and assuming you
> have
> > > put the diode in the correct way round (stripe to the throttle
> > > switch) there is nothing else I can suggest apart from removing
> the
> > > idle control valve and looking at the rotary valve when you
> first
> > > put the ignition to position 2. The valve should be controlled
> to
> > > fully open. If the valve fully closes then the 2 control wires
> are
> > > on the wrong way round or the plug has been shove on the wrong
> way
> > > round.
> > > >
> > > > This is assuming that the ecu and valve have been checked out
> OK
> > > btu I think you have had that confirmed already.
> > > >
> > > > One last thing I can think is that the ecu multiplugs have
> been
> > > put on the ecu the wrong way round but it is easy to tell if the
> 4
> > > wired one goes to the right hand side socket on the ecu when
> > viewing
> > > the pins on the ecu.
> > > >
> > > > NickT
> > > >
> > > > blackaddertoo wrote:
> > > > Hi Nick and all
> > > >
> > > > managed to slope off a site early, with tools in the boot and
> do
> > > > some more testing.
> > > >
> > > > checked diode with meter...reads 700 on diode test and tried
> with
> > > a
> > > > test light and jump battery, lights one way and not the other
> so
> > i
> > > > think the didode is ok.
> > > >
> > > > now with key on, in ignition positive power is ok at middle
> > > > connection idle speed motor.
> > > >
> > > > ground connection at idle mutliplug checks ok for continuity
> with
> > > > body panel ie -ve ok.
> > > >
> > > > checked continuity of other two connections at idle speed
> motor
> > > plug.
> > > > checks ok at ecu multiplug, ie no break in wire
> > > >
> > > > checked pulse coil connection on left side of rear engine at
> fire
> > > > wall...checks at 550 ohms...is this ok as specialT say this
> > should
> > > > be about 600+ ohms
> > > >
> > > > the only lead lest to check is the feed from the coil...do i
> take
> > > > off the coil cover and investigate there? i could not quite
> see
> > > > where the leads go...assuming it connects at the ecu mutliplug.
> > > >
> > > > tried again to start..runs 10 seconds then chugs and dies as
> if
> > > the
> > > > engine is being starved of air/petrol...but it did idle fine
> with
> > > > the brass screws adjusted.
> > > >
> > > > one thing to note...a mouse has been living with the ecus in
> the
> > > > corner behind the drivers seat.
> > > > the blue wire (i think it is the feed for the 02 sensor
> maybe?)
> > or
> > > > is the the coil connection has a small amount of chew marks,
> > > > exposing the wire below...does not look like the wire itself
> has
> > > > been damaged, however i think this looks like a shielded cable
> so
> > > > can't be good.
> > > > maybe i might have to remove all the mutliplugs and the metal
> > > > support and check all the wiring out.
> > > > if the lambda ecu/wiring was faulty would the car idle with
> brass
> > > > screw adjustment? i thought not?
> > > >
> > > > thanx for any help.
> > > >
> > > > a mouse also chewed through my headlight wiring and the rear
> of
> > > the
> > > > indicator plastic!!!! haven't found any dead ones though.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Nick Tomlinson
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The resistance test is a simple one on a diode and you
> remember
> > > > correctly.
> > > > > Diodes though can become 'leaky' when the PN junction breaks
> > > > down which is why you check with the diode function. This will
> > > show
> > > > the voltage drop across the junction and depending on type
> should
> > > > show no voltage drop one way and between 500mV and 800mV the
> > other.
> > > > >
> > > > > "
> > > > > "Put your multimeter to volts. Connect the red cable of
> meter
> > to
> > > > > > jump start post. Use black lead to check for throttle
> switch
> > > > input
> > > > > (AT THE ECU MULTIPLUG) meter should read battery voltage
> with
> > > > > throttle closed (switch
> > > > > > operated) and no voltage with throttle open.""
> > > > > according to the workshop manual, does this input not just
> earth
> > > > > when the switch is closed (car at idle) so to test i earthed
> it
> > > > with
> > > > > diode removed then tried to start car.
> > > > > "
> > > > > Yes, the unit does earth this switched point when the
> throttle
> > > > is closed.
> > > > > The test I give will show if there is any feedback voltage
> from
> > > > the other circuit showing the diode has gone short, leaky or
> open
> > > > circuit. I am presuming that you earthed this input at an
> earth
> > > > point like the engine block or better yet the -VE battery post.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope the circuit diagram I sent to you makes the connections
> > > > clear.
> > > > > Chances are you have an earth lead off somewhere so the unit
> > > > isn't earthing at the earth pin.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's always harder to explain in words what you could do
> > > > yourself in 20 minutes.
> > > > >
> > > > > This problem will be fixed soon.
> > > > >
> > > > > NickT.
> > > > >
> > > > > blackaddertoo wrote:
> > > > > Hi Nick
> > > > >
> > > > > thanx for the reply. Don't worry you can talk technical as i
> > > used
> > > > to
> > > > > do a bit of hobby electronics, building transmitters etc,
> > simple
> > > > > logic circuits etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > i thought the screw which has a lead to it earthed the ecu.
> > > > > i will recheck the multiplug earth.
> > > > >
> > > > > i will check for continuity from ecu multiplug to idle
> motor.
> > > did
> > > > > not have any wire long enough yesterday, as the car is
> parked
> > > away
> > > > > from home.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Put your multimeter to volts. Connect the red cable of
> meter
> > to
> > > > > > jump start post. Use black lead to check for throttle
> switch
> > > > input
> > > > > (AT THE ECU MULTIPLUG) meter should read battery voltage
> with
> > > > > throttle closed (switch
> > > > > > operated) and no voltage with throttle open.""
> > > > > according to the workshop manual, does this input not just
> earth
> > > > > when the switch is closed (car at idle) so to test i earthed
> it
> > > > with
> > > > > diode removed then tried to start car.
> > > > >
> > > > > the diode, i must be wrong but i thought it would read
> > > continuity
> > > > in
> > > > > one direction ie no resistance one way and 100% the other,
> but
> > i
> > > > > couldn't remember back to my electronics days.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Nick Tomlinson
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You said you checked the earth by:
> > > > > > "earth check with continuity tester from screw into base
> to
> > > car
> > > > > body,
> > > > > > to ecu multiplug"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This mounting screw just holds the ecu to the metal frame
> > > which
> > > > > is earthed.
> > > > > > The earth on the ecu is actually one of the pins on the 6
> pin
> > > > > multiplug so check this first using the test:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Put your multimeter to volts. Connect the red cable of
> meter
> > > to
> > > > > > jump start post. Use black lead to check for earth at ecu
> > > MULTI
> > > > > PLUG, meter
> > > > > > should read battery voltage."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Check continuity of all wires from the idle speed ecu plug.
> > > > > > Especially those to the idle speed motor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "so how do i check the input from the coil/distibuter
> (which
> > i
> > > > > assume
> > > > > > gives the rpm signal (also runs the rev counter input?)"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Said this in last message
> > > > > > "You can check for continuity using the resistance setting
> on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > multimeter and check for wire continuity between the
> switched
> > > > side
> > > > > > of the coil to the ecu plug, (remove the ecu first). If
> there
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > > suppressor, temporarily disconnect it in case this has
> gone
> > > bad."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your test on continuity test through the diode would give
> a
> > > > > result dependant on the positive feed from your multimeter
> for
> > > the
> > > > > continuity test. This will be blocked or passed through (in
> > > > laymans
> > > > > terms) due to the characteristic of the diode itself, hence
> the
> > > > > diode test.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Put the diode back in the circuit and do the test as in my
> > > > > previous message
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Put your multimeter to volts. Connect the red cable of
> meter
> > > to
> > > > > > jump start post. Use black lead to check for throttle
> switch
> > > > input
> > > > > (AT THE ECU MULTIPLUG) meter should read battery voltage
> with
> > > > > throttle closed (switch
> > > > > > operated) and no voltage with throttle open."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you have a circuit diagram of the idle speed ecu ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NickT.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > blackaddertoo wrote:
> > > > > > hi Nick
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanx for the post...i know a long one but here hoes..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > earth check with continuity tester from screw into base to
> > car
> > > > > body,
> > > > > > to ecu multiplug
> > > > > >
> > > > > > connected test light to main power ecu multiplug...lights
> > with
> > > > > > ignition each time (tested fuse-ok)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > check throttle switch input before/after diode, continuity
> > > > before
> > > > > > (with earth) non afterbut reads about 700 on doide test on
> > > meter
> > > > > > from your comment this looks about right but removed diode
> > > > > > completely to test further. does not activate continuity
> > > buzzer
> > > > on
> > > > > > positive or neg current...thought it should.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > have not checked coil to ecu or ecu plug to idle plug
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thermister has been replaced a couple of weeks ago...reads
> > > about
> > > > > > 1800 ohms cold so that is ok i think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > tried earthing the throttle input and starting the
> car....car
> > > > did
> > > > > > the same...runs for 15 secs then chugs and dies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > car idles ok (1500rpm) with brass screws adjusted so i
> assume
> > > co
> > > > > > adjustment is ok otherwise it would not run?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so how do i check the input from the coil/distibuter
> (which i
> > > > > assume
> > > > > > gives the rpm signal (also runs the rev counter input?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i'm running out of things to test but surely my problems
> are
> > > > here
> > > > > > somewhere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Nick Tomlinson
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How did you check the earth connection at the ecu multi
> > plug?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have you checked for a switched connected at the ecu
> > > multiplug
> > > > > > from the throttle switch?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Put your multimeter to volts. Connect the red cable of
> > meter
> > > > to
> > > > > > jump start post. Use black lead to check for earth at ecu,
> > > meter
> > > > > > should read battery voltage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Put your multimeter to volts. Connect the red cable of
> > meter
> > > > to
> > > > > > jump start post. Use black lead to check for throttle
> switch
> > > > > input,
> > > > > > meter should read battery voltage with throttle closed
> > (switch
> > > > > > operated) and no voltage with throttle open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With the ECU plugged in, check the multiplug that goes
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > idle speed motor, the centre pin should have 12v on it
> (with
> > > key
> > > > > in
> > > > > > ignition and tuned to position 2) continuously. The ecu
> > > > > momentarily
> > > > > > earths the outer pins to open and close the motor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You can check for continuity using the resistance
> setting
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > multimeter and check for wire continuity between the
> switched
> > > > side
> > > > > > of the coil to the ecu plug, (remove the ecu first). If
> there
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > > suppressor, temporarily disconnect it in case this has
> gone
> > > bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The white lead from the distributor to the ecu is from
> the
> > > > > > negatively switched side of the coil. If this was short
> then
> > > the
> > > > > car
> > > > > > would not run at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Diode should be tested using diode function on the
> > > > > > multimeter ideally not resistance.
> > > > > > > Reading should be between 500 and 800 with test leads
> one
> > > way
> > > > > > round on the diode, and no reading (ie infinite) the other
> > way
> > > > > round.
> > > > > > > The diode is there to stop feedback voltage going to
> this
> > > > > > circuit, as the throttle microswitch operates a couple of
> > > other
> > > > > > circuits too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would say from your resistance tests that this diode
> > would
> > > > > > appear to be open circuit.
> > > > > > > Temporarily connect this wire to permanent earth for
> idle
> > > > > > testing purposes only. Does the car idle now?? If it does
> > then
> > > > the
> > > > > > diode will need replacing. Note which way round the diode
> is
> > > > when
> > > > > > you removed it and replace it with another the right way
> > round.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am presuming that you have check for wire continuity
> > > between
> > > > > > the idle speed motor multiplug and the idle speed ecu
> > > multiplug.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have you measured the thermister resistance?
> > > > > > > Do this by using your multimeter on resistance and
> connect
> > > to
> > > > > > the 2 pins on the idle speed ecu multiplug. If you get no
> > > > reading
> > > > > > (open circuit) then the connector to the thermistor
> connector
> > > > plug
> > > > > > may have fallen off or the thermistor itself has gone bad.
> > > > > > > If you get no resistance, you can make some short fly
> leads
> > > to
> > > > > > enable the multiplug to be connected to the ecu by 2 pins
> (on
> > > > the
> > > > > 4
> > > > > > pin block) and the thermistor ecu inputs to a 10 kilo ohm
> > > > resistor
> > > > > > to simulate the thermistor. If the car now idles then this
> is
> > > > the
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NIckT.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > blackaddertoo wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi all
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > an update on my idle problems
> > > > > > > idle ecu and idle motor checked and working by martin at
> > > DMUK.
> > > > > > > now removed motor, blocked pipes and adjusted
> screws...car
> > > > idle
> > > > > ok
> > > > > > > at 1500 rpm.
> > > > > > > checked power to ecu ok at plug, checked switch ok at
> > engine
> > > > but
> > > > > > > diode reads no resistance either polarity. (should it?)
> n
> > > > moved
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > further testing.
> > > > > > > checked ground connection at ecu - Ok.
> > > > > > > put Eecu and motor back in, shorted the
> diode/microswitch
> > > > input
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > earth...car idle 30 second then dies. exactly the same
> > > problem.
> > > > > > > removed diode short...idle 30 secs then dies.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > so i am left to check the input from the distributor
> > (should
> > > > the
> > > > > > car
> > > > > > > idle if this is dead and hence the ecu does not know
> engine
> > > > > > speed??)
> > > > > > > and if the leads from the ecu to motor are OK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > if i put a test light on the connector at engine end and
> > > > switch
> > > > > > > ignition, should there be a short positive signal on the
> > one
> > > > (to
> > > > > > > either close the motor or open?)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > then remove the microswith...do the same and the other
> lead
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > go positive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > that is correct is it not, middle lead to motor is
> ground
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > other run motor positive one way and positive the other
> to
> > > > close
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > air valve??.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanx for reading this!! and sorry to bore you. i am
> > > > determined
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > resolve this (and enjoy it really!!)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DOC UK Website: www.deloreans.co.uk
> > > > Unsubscribe: doc-uk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > ** Unless otherwise stated, all messages posted to the group
> are
> > > assumed public and may be printed in the club magazine **
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now.
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > DOC UK Website: www.deloreans.co.uk
> > > Unsubscribe: doc-uk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > ** Unless otherwise stated, all messages posted to the group are
> > assumed public and may be printed in the club magazine **
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
> > new Yahoo! Security Centre.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DOC UK Website: www.deloreans.co.uk
> Unsubscribe: doc-uk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** Unless otherwise stated, all messages posted to the group are
assumed
> public and may be printed in the club magazine **
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/233 - Release Date:
> 18/01/2006
> 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/233 - Release Date:
18/01/2006
 


		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


DOC UK Website: www.deloreans.co.uk
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** Unless otherwise stated, all messages posted to the group are assumed public and may be printed in the club magazine ** 
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